January 19, 2023 | The Sherman Show

TSS Episode 131: Charles Payne on His Unique Career, Informed Investors and a Wayward Fed

Charles Payne, financial author, Fox Business Network anchor and principal of independent research firm Wall Street Strategies, discusses with hosts Jeffrey Sherman and Samuel Lau his career, the power of financial literacy to change people’s lives, his approach to investing, and his outlook for the economy and markets. This podcast was recorded Jan. 4, 2023.

Mr. Payne, host of Making Money With Charles Payne on FBN, starts (0:21) with his “two childhoods,” the first an idyllic experience in a military family, the second in a penniless household after the breakup of his parents. “I was sort of thrust at 12 years old into a position of having to help” the household finances. Growing up in Harlem with his mother and two younger brothers, he self-educated himself about investing to the point where he bought his first mutual fund at 17 and his first stock, a successful investment in telecom MCI, at 18.

After college and a tour in the United States Air Force, including a posting on a nuclear missile base (5:52), Mr. Payne found work in the stock brokerage industry (9:21). But in time, his passion for research and his disillusion (12:13) with the sales-driven focus of the industry led him to found Wall Street Strategies in 1991. Mr. Payne describes the buildup of his firm (13:42), preparing research at night and working as his own salesman by day until the business took off, allowing him to hire staff and open an office on Wall Street.

Mr. Payne describes his guest appearance on CNBC (14:26), a journey that included a moving encounter with former professional boxer Mike Tyson, his growing presence as a market commentator on the networks and the development of his on-air style. He eventually was approached by the then-fledgling FBN. After an initial struggle, he made his regular weekday program into a ratings success.

With Jeffrey Sherman and Samuel Lau, among further topics, Mr. Payne stresses (21:25) the importance of people learning to actively invest over their lifetime and not passively turning their money over to fee-collecting financial professionals. He also discusses the art of interviewing on television and how he chooses guests (25:09).

Turning to markets, among other topics, Mr. Payne discusses his contrarian approach to investing (36:25), grounded on fundamental analysis but also including technical and behavioral work. He criticizes the Federal Reserve’s focus on the dubious metric of “excess reserves” (40:20), the investment opportunities he sees in China (42:12) and his expectation that the Fed will be compelled to cut rates sooner than the central bank expects (47:08).



  • Jeffrey Sherman, CFA

    Jeffrey Sherman, CFA

    As DoubleLine’s Deputy Chief Investment Officer, Jeffrey Sherman oversees and administers DoubleLine’s Investment Management sub-committee coordinating and implementing policies and processes across the investment teams. He also serves as lead portfolio manager for multi-sector and derivative-based strategies. Mr. Sherman is a member of DoubleLine’s Executive Management and Fixed Income Asset Allocation Committees. He can be heard regularly on his podcast “The Sherman Show” (Twitter @ShermanShowPod, where he interviews distinguished guests, giving listeners insight into DoubleLine’s current views. In 2018, Money Management Executive named Jeffrey Sherman as one of “10 Fund Managers to Watch” in its yearly special report. Prior to joining DoubleLine in 2009, Mr. Sherman was a Senior Vice President at TCW where he worked as a portfolio manager and quantitative analyst focused on fixed income and real-asset portfolios. He was a statistics and mathematics instructor at both the University of the Pacific and Florida State University. Mr. Sherman taught Quantitative Methods for Level I candidates in the CFA LA/USC Review Program for many years. He holds a B.S. in Applied Mathematics from the University of the Pacific and an M.S. in Financial Engineering from the Claremont Graduate University. Mr. Sherman is a CFA® charterholder.

  • Samuel Lau

    Macro-Asset Allocation

    Samuel Lau

    Macro-Asset Allocation

    Mr. Lau joined DoubleLine in 2009. He is a Strategist on the Fixed Income Asset Allocation (FIAA) Committee and a contributing member on the Global Asset Allocation and Macro committees. Mr. Lau is a Portfolio Manager on DoubleLine’s strategic commodity strategy while working in portfolio management and trading for derivatives-based and multi-asset strategies, including DoubleLine's Shiller Enhanced CAPE®, Shiller Enhanced International CAPE®, Real Estate and Income, and Multi-Asset Trend strategies. He also co-hosts the Sherman Show (Twitter @ShermanShowPod, and Monday Morning Minutes (Twitter @DLineMinutes, podcasts. Prior to DoubleLine, Mr. Lau was a Vice President at TCW where he worked under Jeffrey Gundlach as a Research Analyst in the Mortgage Group. He holds a B.S. from the University of Wisconsin, Madison and an MBA from the Marshall School of Business at the University of Southern California.